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Apparently Gothard had been strongly teaching the parents in Phone sex dating La Grange ATI Sweet women seeking sex chinese women sex that youth groups were evil and that nothing good could possibly come out of them.

So those parents refused to allow their children to participate in the youth group or attend Sunday School. Apparently Sunday School was evil too! Bill was teaching the parents that only the fathers should teach scripture to their children. These parents became so strict with their children Phone sex dating La Grange out of all the young people in our church, their children were the ONLY ones who were rebelling!

Those family's nearly "lost" all of their children. It was so bad that, finally, in desperation the ATI parents began to seek counciling for their wayward kids, albeit through the ATI counciling centers.

I don't know what they were told, but the parents began to loosen up a bit with their kids, and that was their only saving grace. In the meantime, those same parents Phone sex dating La Grange been so Housewives wants sex tonight Clyde vocal against the youth group and Sunday School that they nearly destroyed our church altogether with their unloving and divisive approaches. I had heard of other churches experiencing the same thing.

From that time on, I lost all respect for Bill Gothard and his teachings altogether. And now all of this scandalI am not at all surprised, but I am utterly disgusted!!

Mary, What you experienced happened all over the country. Gothard followers would go to their conferences and seminars and come back to their churches, telling all the others how they were using satanic music to worship, and judging others for letting their kids attend youth group, Sunday school, and how they Phone sex dating La Grange.

People felt judged and were hurt. Churches Phone sex dating La Grange torn apart. I watched it happen to our church, and it was the motivating factor Housewives wants real sex Haddonfield the elder of the Texas church who composed "A Call for Discernment".

Judgement of others, division within the body, Phone sex dating La Grange up of churches, yet another one of the "fruits" that Bill Gothard has given to us all. Kevin and Mary, that is almost exactly what happened with my family.

We were only in ATI for 4 years, thank God, but during that time my parents and their best friends, who had also enrolled their family in ATI, put an awful lot of strain on their relationships with our pastor and other wonderful Christian people in the church we'd been a part of almost my entire life.

My parents wouldn't let us join the youth group, and my dad and his best friend, who were both elders, both took their opinions about the "evil rock music" read: One Sunday they even dragged us all out at the beginning of a service because the music was "so bad. All the kids involved handled it as best we could, but our parents' actions caused disruption our relationships back at our home church, and they definitely caused disruption Phone sex dating La Grange my mind as I tried to figure out if we would in fact leave the church we'd been attending since I could remember.

They did allow us to attend Sunday School, and later on around the time we left ATI they let me join the youth group, where I made some great friends who despite their "worldly" read: And once we did leave ATI, my parents' and their friends' relationships back at the home church were renewed. They found our pastor and their other friends very forgiving of what they'd done.

To this day I consider my parents' actions while in ATI highly out of character, and I wonder how two such highly-educated, brilliant people with critical, questioning minds ever ended up involved in such a destructive cult, but in the end it was those qualities - and the grace of God - that made them realize how wrong ATI was.

I'm very grateful for the fact that we were only ever on the fringes, and my heart breaks for the people here who had to figure their own way out of this cult because their parents were simply too entrenched. Honestly, you just described my family. Every church we attended my parents shook up. When we Phone sex dating La Grange leave and all the crap going on my parents would shake their heads and say THEY were the problem.

Not the church. My family is completely shattered. Phone sex dating La Grange no longer speak with any sibling or either parent. My family has recently reached in and tried to destroy my small family out of spite sfx my husband and I have cut them off. It's a shame to have so many believers destroyed by one man's teachings.

I cannot say that about Phone sex dating La Grange immediate family, but I can say it about my church family. Friends and supposed brethren that will not speak to each other. In my case, because I would not submit to their demands for my life. I would not marry, live, and act, in accordance with their wishes, "as my authority. This is not a misunderstanding or Sexy lady searching horny fucking lonely older ladies misapplication of what are otherwise Grante principles.

They last about two years at any given church, then literally stand up during a service and declare them unfit. It's disturbing. We are middle aged and still see the affects my husband's family has inflicted on those around them. This is my first time at this site and SO much makes sense now. I am so glad I ignored my in-law's insistence that our children be involved with IBLP and the materials they would always offer us.

Due to many many years of their misbehavior, judgment and manipulation I have no contact with them at all. My children Phohe been put off by their hypocrisy and I believe it is because they have steeped themselves Married wife looking hot sex Logan this ridiculous legalism.

As an aside, I was treated so poorly by them I questioned my own worth for many years. I was not good enough. I was not godly enough. I tempted their son, etc, etc.

My husband Phone sex dating La Grange I have been married 25 years and at times I still see how damaging what they said and did has been to him. We are free of them, but still dealing with the fallout. My prayer is, for anyone here, that you know how much you are loved by the God of the Daitng, right now, right as you are. Jesus came here for you. He died and rose for you. ALL you have to Phone sex dating La Grange is believe. No hoops to jump through, no works to perform--just believe.

I pray you are free of this twisted, stunted teaching. I pray our families find truth, healing and joy in Phone sex dating La Grange. May all of you feel God's blessings on your lives. How thankful we should all be that this truth is being spoken and shared with people who have been hurt in the past and are currently involved in this "ministry".

Anyone who said they were getting words from God Phone sex dating La Grange hiding stuff like this is deplorable. It is my prayer that the truth will continue to spread I am committed to share it with everyone I know who is or has been involved in this ministry. I deeply mourn the past years I spent listening to and sometimes following such teaching, and it has been a LONG time - I am currently 68 years old and attended my first seminar at age You wonder in retrospect how you could have been so blind.

I DO understand why so many Phone sex dating La Grange waited so long to speak up - there is no way you could know unless you were indoctrinated within the ministries how unthinkable speaking out would have been adting he made it almost impossible!

Looking from the outside of the inner workings of Mr. G and the seminar, you could never understand how impossible it would have seemed to question anything, or, horror of horrors, give a "bad report". May God forgive each of us who subjected our children to leadership that was in open sin, and pretending to be in close communion with God. And may healing be found in the needed lives. I thank God Phone sex dating La Grange the grace that has Ggange bestowed on Horney people Fleming Pennsylvania in Phone sex dating La Grange of our unwise decisions.

I asked God, so what did I get out of all those wasted years? And I believe it Laa a "new approach to life" alright - never again will I believe anything I hear Phone sex dating La Grange a man without having my Bible beside me, sifting whatever they say through the Word of God. Thank you for being truth sharers, RG, and all who have risked much to step forward sating speak, that others might escape deception Phone sex dating La Grange lies and cover-ups.

No one should be criticizing you - they should be thanking you. Thank you for sharing Suzi. I was ten when my parents attended a IBYC seminar in We attended other seminars in later years, and one of my Phone sex dating La Grange and his wife were hard core Gothardites. The hypocrisy I witnessed in that couple was so astounding, that I wholesale rejected the whole IBLP teachings and every thing associated with it.

Thank God and I feel sad for the many who were fooled. I wrestled datinv years with the impossible contradictions in those authority teachings. And of course I was labelled a rebel.

Praise God for His liberating love and forgiveness. My hope is that many will be freed from their shackles as this story unfolds. Gothard reminds me of another version of Hugh Hefner and all his playboy mansion BS. May God bring justice to all who suffered in this sick, scandalous institute. I can't believe it. I mean I can but jeez. My parents told me that Steve had affair out of marriage. I had no idea it Lady want sex tonight Goldston this dark or that Bill was so much involved.

Thanks for telling the truth. I can report that in the first decade Phone sex dating La Grange the 's Bill's way of dealing with issues did not change Lies, threats, shameing staff, and firing staff, continued. Our family was in the middle of HQ life for 8. The closer you got to Bill, the more inappropriate behavior you saw. I am Asian sluts Weehui of any older man who esx able Women seeking sex Faroe Islands work next to Bill's office for any length of time The route was This was because Bill was not willing to accept different opinions, sating alternate thinking as rebellion, and saw other men as threats to his authority.

I caught Bill in several lies directly, he would just smile, shake his head and change the subject. I am appalled by their 35 years of spineless oversight yes the composition has changed many times They really are as guilty as Bill is.

And I will go further These men in unison one accord.?? They have not. This is not christian leadership. They have neglected their duty, allowing many to suffer. Most of my HQ workers I count as dear friends today. They knew little or nothing of all this deceit and abuse.

Bill's 40 year history of concealed abuse casts a stain on all of us who innocently gave years of our life and energy to the "ministry".

There is much more detail I could add I'm struggling to focus on any Grangge that came out of our time there. So many gave, including our family, so willingly--believing we were advancing the Kingdom of God. What an incredible sham this has been for so many years. Yet it Phone sex dating La Grange still so difficult to reconcile that time and effort given to a place where such evil existed unchecked for so many years.

You protected all of us from becoming more involved and potentially Phone sex dating La Grange then we could have been. I know many who worked under you are thankful as well for your relentless pursuit of truth and justice, that pursuit that eventually forced us to move on. This statement in the article has been overlooked, but I think it quite important: Many Christian men and women will have problems with masturbation, but this goes beyond that.

If Bill was continually masturbating while teaching what he taught and having the types of relationship with young women that he was having, then something quite sinister is going on.

That is the kind of behavior that in most cases does not datng. So, does Bill now have a 45 year history of sexual addiction to masturbation? Is it possible that ATI exists to feed severe masturbation addiction? This would explain many of the "why" questions as to certain behavior. I Phone sex dating La Grange consider it more likely than not that something more sinister is going on, something along the lines of hidden cameras in the showers, or secret peepholes to changing areas.

Has there ever been reports of that? I don't think datin can separate the continual desire to be surrounded by beautiful young women from severe masturbation addiction. Just something to consider. Oh ick!!!!! State line PA cheating wives that's a very interesting point.

Would be advisable to search HQ for Ggange very things. Obviously hidden cameras that could be easily concealed wouldn't have existed until the past decade or so, although it begs the question as to who would have installed it and hooked it Phone sex dating La Grange to a computer? I do not think Bill could have managed such a thing on his own. However the peep-holes is ancient as Naughty wives want sex Mont-Laurier Quebec itself, I imagine.

Just to be fair, I would not believe that this DID happen, unless there were some proof, Phone sex dating La Grange I certainly believe it's a possibility. Mirrors on the shoes? I thought of this too. This addiction explains so much. All the young girls were feeding his fantasy life. And excellent point about the cameras!

I hope someone Phne into that pronto! That datung jumped out at me too. I don't know about peepholes, but the puzzle pieces are coming together. Bill was telling the girls to leave on a 60W light in their rooms at the ITC, if I remember correctly.

Anybody remember that? I always had a suspicion about why he would do that, but it sure does make me wonder now! Samuel, that light was datinb to help ease the discomfort of Phone sex dating La Grange menstrual cycle. He read about some obscure study somewhere that touted this as a solution to cramps and irritability.

Personally, the lack of sleep caused by trying to sleep in a brightly Phone sex dating La Grange room would have just made the irritability worse. What I don't understand is why so many of us young women listened to, and BELIEVED, an unmarried man when he told us how to handle such an intimately female issue as menstrual dysfunction.

Light exposure at night is a risk factor in breast cancer: The story was that a farmer had done Phone sex dating La Grange with his chickens. For what purpose, I now forget. But somehow BG thought it would help with menstrual irregularities [insert extracted and unrelated Scripture verse, here]. Light at night to help with the menstrual cycle? Whether it is scriptural discernment or medical information, it is as though Gothard just made stuff up on the fly, without a shred of eex or knowledge behind his conclusions.

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In looking at some of the conclusions he arrived at, it appears he had some real intelligence blind spots. In fact, he seems very dim in some areas. Yes, I was so uncomfortable at age 13 attending the Advanced Seminar and listening to him talk about Menstruation and Abstinence and other similar topics. I was mortified that I was in mixed company, and felt weird listening to Gothard on the big screen talking about such private things Not to mention, it sounded trite and difficult to keep track of Phone sex dating La Grange follow.

Until the age of 17, I believed that ATI was probably indeed "the truth," but that I would never be Phone sex dating La Grange to follow it, consequently damning myself to hell without a chance. By the age of 13, I had just accepted that I didn't have what it took to live according to this true high standard, and it would be easier if I could just accept that I'd be in hell for eternity upon my death. That's a dark place in which to live as a teenage girl.

I've never once wished to be a child again or go back in time - I always wanted to make it to adulthood and "get out," and I'm so grateful I did. He seemed obsessed with the menstual cycle - tried to compare it to the blood of Christ.

At least he said that a woman's menstrual cycle should remind her husband of Phone sex dating La Grange shed blood of Christ on the cross No, His blood was precious!! I can't believe that I actually wrote that statement in the Advanced notebook. It didn't hit me until much later when I read that someone said that it was on such and such a page. I even checked because I didn't believe i but there it was written in my own handwriting.

His thoughts on health were extremely strange. He thought that women shouldn't run or their reproductive organs would be harmed. This is a very outdated idea based on the fact that women with low BMI such as some very thin athletes can have suppressed hormone levels. The issue is eating enough, not the exercise. Exercise improves blood flow to organs and Phone sex dating La Grange core muscles needed for labor Porn chat Turtle River delivery.

The man knows nothing of Phone sex dating La Grange hermeneutics, yet convinces his followers he is the authority on scriptural interpretation. He knows nothing of marriage, Lady want hot sex Milesburg he is propped up as the wisest marriage advisor on the planet.

He knows nothing of raising children, yet he is trusted to tell people how to handle every child rearing issue imaginable.

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He is no dietician, yet he dispenses dietary advice as a top authority. He is no doctor, datjng has shown zero aptitude for critical thinking when evaluating the weighted significance of medical studies, Phone sex dating La Grange yet he plays the part of medical advisor.

The man is a charlatan and a fool. A charming rating, but a fool. He starts off an article on interpretation and Looking 4 some1 to fuck some of the commonly understood rules for hermeneutics. It's not bad You know the type: Spirit led, not the wisdom of man, etc.

So he has been exposed to some good Phone sex dating La Grange on the topic, it's just adting for him. The Lord Himself show us truth, today, blessings. Wendy, right. I continue to wonder if there wasn't a more sinister reason for the light at night in girls' rooms, Pohne that IS only speculation. Ileata also pointed the to same reason you mentioned after I posted, so I guess I can accept that, but it's hard to believe that we all listened so much to Phone sex dating La Grange dude.

I agree with you about wondering why we listened to him and also wonder shy Bill a man would even have an opinion about such subjects him not being a MD, OBGYN, or some other rank of medical authority on the topics of womens' health issues.

It's odd that mothers didn't stop ses over this daying of absurd behavior when their daughters were in the centers. Greg, You are correct. I have read his teaching on hermeneutics and yes, he has had scholarship in this area of maybe he just knows how to click and paste The reasons for his bizarre conclusions are far more sinister, than to explain it away as the workings of a Searching for a friend and lover.

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That was my knee jerk reaction to the idiotic medical advice he gives. The fool is just naive, and draws conclusions of the things around him because he knows no better.

Gothard's conclusions, while foolish at face value, have the sinister intent to try to control and manipulate. They are all about his and his obsessions with control and, I am also now seeing, his obsession with elements of human sexuality.

Phone sex dating La Grange to get his control into the bedroom of married couples, teaching on Phone sex dating La Grange they can and can't have sex. His teachings on circumcision- trying to control what happens to the penis of Phone sex dating La Grange people. And even his teachings relating to menstruation, all point to an unhealthy desire to control these areas.

His silly teaching against women Bbw swingers in Korb it would not surprise me if there was something personal behind even this. We know he was interested in girl's feet and running makes the feet callused, so perhaps that was his motivation. Hard to say, but one thing for certain, it has nothing to do with medicine or science.

If all the intimate contact with young women didn't culminate in more than 'groping over the clothing,' the actions have to reach final stage somewhere else. Completing the fantasy can be better done in private and may add to Skandia MI adult personals spiritual deception of, "Well, I didn't actually do it.

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It had to be there to make sense. I'm just surprised that Bill allegedly admitted it. That certainly casts "Meg"'s account of heavy breathing on the phone Part 5 in a terrifying light. Except that Meg said it was a young man's voice. When she called Gothard right after, he sounded surprised and she did not associate the voice with that of the first caller. Of course, he could try to fake it You're right, I didn't catch that. Samnaun girls xxx it wasn't him, it's Phone sex dating La Grange sad that given his problems Phone sex dating La Grange predilections, he was the only person that she could go to.

I lived in one of the other Institute houses, and we got prank calls all the time. Interestingly, I don't recall receiving any such calls after I moved to Heritage Manor a small apartment building owned by Wife want real sex Fruithurst Institute and had a phone in my own name.

I actually think that the fact that him masturbating being made an "issue" is incredibly short-sighted and idealistic.

I never could understand the christian world's aversion to something that involves no one, hurts no one unless you fantasize about an acquaintance and then treat that person differentlyand is in many ways a healthy, harmless expression of normal human sexual desires.

Now I do realize the beef with Gothard is that he was so incredibly outspoken about squelching all desires for the opposite sex, Phone sex dating La Grange the way from mere friendly conversation to sexual fantasies, yet apparently indulged in everything he taught against. I abhor him for that, and the copious guilt he was happy to heap on everyone else for made-up sins. But I do not fault him for this one tiny aspect- being a normal human and dealing with his sexual urges on his own.

Everything else? 18 looking for a cougar 25 not that. Me too, just another ati girl I think the teachings against that were Phone sex dating La Grange the top and harmful. When you suppress sexuality Phone sex dating La Grange much as the Gothard family did, it will take form in perversion. I don't believe masturbation is a sin.

How can it be if it is something that can happen in your sleep and at times without really trying? I think this is a false teaching. Vague scriptures Phone sex dating La Grange Old Testament stories are taken to mean far more than they do. I believe it is possible to do it in a wrong way, with evil thoughts, or in wrong places. That applies to men, women, married or single. However, I think it is a sin that Gothard told others that it was wrong to masturbate, using it as a way to control others, and then apparently Phone sex dating La Grange it himself.

Also if he used young girls as victims to feed into his fantasies. Good point. I have had that nagging in the back of my mind too. Why was it appropriate for him to have ANY female secretaries????

We would not want our husbands to do that! This whole thing opens up the door to his own fantasy island, kneeling to pray in his office, holding a girls hand while she pours her heart out to her Lord, having her share intimate things in her life like he was her father.

This defies any healthy boundaries, period. I had no idea this was happening. Turns out there is no christian utopia. Following the Lord humbly seeking His guidance is best. Leave the Bills of the world out of the picture. God restore our families. In Genesis when God created Eve He said "it is not good for man to be alone" Powerful bonding hormones are released during sex. I believe sex is very sacred-meant to be reserved for the love and lifetime time commitment of a true marriage-after allphysiologically this union between man and woman can result in the birth of a whole new being that needs to be nurtured and cared for.

Masturbation is a totally selfish act-it releases sexual energy meant to bond 2 people together and demeans sex. It is a momentary thrill totally divorced from the amazing experience Phone sex dating La Grange a true union-heart to heart, mind to mind and body between two people Woman want casual sex Quay to going Phone sex dating La Grange life together.

Sin separates. It is all in the mind. Instead of focusing on loving God -and in His loveloving others -the mind is fantasizing on self. I don't believe in judging or condemning anyone who has fallen into this trap masturbation -the truth sets us free.

We need to come up higher-God has a much higher joy for us. Christ showed what love is-it is about giving. He wants to give us more than we could even ask or think.

Gothard was given a form of worship and it went Phone sex dating La Grange his head. Even animals don't do this. Seriously, is THIS the core issue datlng Bill Gothard is a Lz teacher who has destroyed the lives of thousands with his heretical doctrine. That, along with these other stories of sexual misconduct, are enough show that he should have never been in ministry, and needs to repent of his sins. The rest of this accomplishes nothing expect to make this site look tabloid.

Phone sex dating La Grange just hit me! My father worked there in the 's and we lived in a "ministry owned" house that we were required to live datingg. We all had to have the same pea-green carpet in our homes along with no tvs and not allowed to own a pair of jeans slacks were okas well as other strict rules.

So my question is, why were we required to Grnage in "ministry owned homes"? Did they tap phones or have Grqnge Phone sex dating La Grange recording devices?? Don't know. Just a sick feeling. Quite possible in the ladies dorm building where I spent a lot of time with the single gals. Ughhh, don't even want to think of that possibility but it wouldn't be out of character for the type of sexual perversion that was going on. That's the Phome thing that comes to my mind after reading this article.

The rampant immorality and BG's lack of accountability is sickening. HOW did people like my parents not understand the severity of all this and realize that BG could not be trusted?

I succinctly remember being in Knoxville and witnessing BG "worship" going Phone sex dating La Grange. I can recall sitting in Thompson-Boling Arena and overhearing grown Grangee literally fawn over BG and how "incredible" he was. The whole ATIA program is completely cultic. I think families were Single ladies seeking casual sex Elliot Lake competing for the affection and admiration of BG and the ATIA staff by having tons of children, memorizing vast amounts of scripture and Grangr learning to play a multitude of musical instruments except for drums or anything else capable of making a beat because music with a beat is straight from satan and can't be trusted.

I look back on my pre-teen and early teenage years Phone sex dating La Grange it's clear to me that BG had a firm hand Phone sex dating La Grange ruining what could have been some amazing experiences.

That might be your answer to that question. Many, many people did not know. And that has Lets party looking for now changed one iota. Damage control at it's finest and most effective.

My parents knew of only the problems with Steve not even the Fucked girl wheatley ontario of it and also know he had been dismissed. They figured someone cannot be held accountable for what another Phone sex dating La Grange if everything was Phone sex dating La Grange correctly. And since all they knew was Steve had been dismissed, they felt things had been Phone sex dating La Grange as best as could have been under the circumstances.

Now that they are aware of many of those circumstances, they are shocked and disgusted with everything and especially the conduct of Bill Gothard himself. Bill's teachings had been a great help to my parents, as Phone sex dating La Grange as they understood, since they had been raised under shallow mediocre church preaching.

Finally someone was explaining what it meant to be a Christian and how to live out the life God calls us to. Over the years, with maturity, time and Free phone chat Lisbon Biblical understanding, they see much of it for what it was, a bunch of formulas relating to just about everything, a formula for success and blessing never sanctioned in the Bible.

Do you remember the standing ovations he always got the first time he walked out on stage? So weird My hands and wrists still hurt when I think about it That was exhausting! I remember an ovation in Knoxville lasting over 5 minutes one year - I timed it! In the words of Charlie Brown, good grief!!! I always loved the fact that when David Barton walked on the stage, everyone went wild, too.

He just ignored it all and started talking. If applause started during his speaking, he simply kept right on going. When he was finished, he didn't hang around and glory in the applause, he just walked off the stage and was gone. Aside from the very real, very human emotions this article raised in me, I'd like to share two thoughts with those who would still say, "But good came from IBLP! Really reconsider it, in light of all of Scripture and the tried and true doctrines of Christ's Church.

Second, if you still believe that God used IBLP in your life for good, realize that this says an immeasurable amount not about Bill Gothard, but about the sovereignty of God. This God Who orchestrates all things for the good of those who love Him, deserves all the loyalty and devotion we have. Even the part we may have previously given to a mere man. When I walked away, I just went and I didn't look back. Now, ten plus years later I'm feeling guilt, and sorrow, and regret.

Because, I walked away and I made it. I survived and succeeded. But, there are a lot of people who didn't, and I just left you Phone sex dating La Grange. I'm Phone sex dating La Grange Christian summer camp is what saved me, what God used to save me.

I arrived there in my ankle length skirts, with my waist length hair, so incredibly naive and sheltered, thinking I was somehow superior to the rest of these "normal" people with my list of rules and standards. Instead I found real people who really loved a Real Jesus and had freely followed Him in ways I never knew were possible.

These wonderful people were patient with me, loved me, laughed with me, taught me, and God used them to change me. I left that summer with a suntan, a couple pairs of pants, and a cartilage piercing to remind me that I was different and that I was free.

I got a lot of flak from some of the people in my old life. I was told I was a rebel, that I was wrong, that my earring was sin. But, I Women seeking sex San Buenaventura (Ventura) changing, Jesus was opening my eyes to truth and freedom and I knew that they were wrong.

I went to college that fall, and back to camp that next summer, and I kept changing. I got tired of to trying to explain who I was and why I was different to people who used to know me but didn't any more. So, I stopped. And, I walked away into my new life, my new identity, new friends who Phone sex dating La Grange know me "when", and a new relationship with Jesus Christ.

But I left you behind. So I just didn't really talk about it. I haven't talked about it for ten years or more. Then I found Recovering Grace, and memories started flooding back in.

I read articles and cried. I used to think that I'd moved past the issues, but the people writing on Recovering Grace helped me to see more areas where I was still believing lies. Then all this Mr.